Abathur by Porco

6 Votes


By: Porco
Last Updated: Sep 12, 2018
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this rework attempt to solve some abathur's problems (in MY opinion of course).

those problems are :

Problem 1 : Too much talents
Solution 1 : only 3 talents per tier (exept lvl 20)

Problem 2 : No quest
Solution 2 : 3 quests at level 1

Problem 3 : Some players only symbiot theyr friends / minions / monstruosity, even if there is a better option.
Solution 3 : level 1 quest need to choose the good ally and obtain his collaboration to be completed

Problem 4 : allways have to choose between 2 builds : Symbiot or push
solution 4 : locust talents have been removed and passively integrated to some other talents. So, you can focus on symbiot and make your locust evolve, or focus on split push and make your symbiot evolve. Locust will probably be more dangerous, so theyr heroic damages are reduced. Locust will now allways finish the game with 3 mutations (at lvl 4, 13, and 16).

Problem 5 : toxic nest talents often suffer from the competition with the other ones
Solution 5 : level 7 is the "toxic nest level" : choose one way to improve them (damages, control, vision or locusts) and make them a powerfull tool. To balance this, toxic nest base damages have been reduced.

Problem 6 : heroic ability improvement are really bad
Solution 6 : make them a little better : increase monstruosity evolve cap and decrease its cooldown, increase clone's duration

Problem 7 : how can a zerg unit calldown a terran MULE ???
Solution 7 : MULE have been replaced by zerg drone. Drone provide less heal, but better ones if symbioted. Symbiot a drone also allow to control it. Drone can be now casted from symbiot.

Problem 8 : adrenal overload is good, but only with some characters.
Solution 8 : instead of attack speed, this talent grants attack and spell damages.

Problem 9 : Volatile mutation is weird : why damages every 3 seconds??
Solution 9 : redesign with damages every second, as usual.

Combat Trait

Locust Strain
Spawns a Locust to attack down the nearest lane every 15 seconds. Locusts last for 25 seconds, have 316 (+4% per level) health and deal 34 (+4% per level) damage with each Basic Attack.
Deals 50% less damages to heroic.

Primary Abilities

Cooldown : 4 seconds
Spawn and attach a Symbiote to a target ally or Structure. While active, Abathur controls the Symbiote, gaining access to new Abilities. The Symbiote is able to gain XP from nearby enemy deaths.
Toxic Nest
Cooldown : 10 seconds
Spawn a mine that becomes active after a short time. Deals 133 (+4% per level) damage and reveals the enemy for 4 seconds. Lasts 90 seconds.
Stores up to 3 charges.

Secondary Abilities

Cooldown : 3 seconds
Shoots a spike towards target area that deals 119 (+4% per level) damage to the first enemy it contacts.
Spike Burst
Cooldown : 6 seconds
Deals 120 (+4% per level) damage to nearby enemies.
Cooldown : 12 seconds
Shields the assisted ally for 157 (+4% per level). Lasts for 8 seconds.

Heroic Abilities

Ultimate Evolution
Cooldown : 70 seconds
Clone target allied Hero and control it for 20 seconds. Abathur has perfected the clone, granting it 20% Spell Power, 20% bonus Attack Damage, and 10% bonus Movement Speed. Cannot use their Heroic Ability.
Evolve Monstrosity
Cooldown : 90 seconds
Turn an allied Minion or Locust into a Monstrosity. When enemy Minions near the Monstrosity die, it gains 5% Health and 5% Basic Attack damage, stacking up to 40 times. The Monstrosity takes 50% less damage from non-Heroic enemies.

Using Symbiote on the Monstrosity allows Abathur to control it, in addition to Symbiote's normal benefits. This Ability can be reactivated to automatically cast Symbiote on his Monstrosity.

Special Mount

Deep Tunnel
Cooldown: 30 seconds
Quickly tunnel to a visible location

level 1

level 4

level 7

level 13

level 16

level 20

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InfernoPunch400 | August 22, 2018 11:25am
As someone who play abby quite often (make no mistake, I still try to get better with him), I find this rework interesting. Here are some of my opinions on this:
1. Though I like those quests at level 1 and how they each enhance different playstyles of him, I am not sure that abby even needs to have quests. One of the things that makes Abby so challanging to play properly is the fact that his talent tree allows him to enhance one playstyle over the others, but to actually make an impact in a match, you have to use him in all of his playstyles at the same time, switch your priorities when the situation calls, and also think yourself, and everything else at least 2 steps ahaed (kinda like playing Chess).
2. This is less of a problem with your idea for the talent, but more a problem I have with the talent itself- Volatile Mutation. I don't like the idea behind that talent, because it can create an unhealthy "habit" of letting the clone/mons. die without getting much value, just to get some damage out of a single talent. I honestly think this talent should just be removed, or at the very least, reworked completely.
3. About the "new" level 20 talents for his heroics-
3.1. Evolutionary Link- I still think it's somewhat underwhelming in its overall impact. I had an idea a while back for this talent that maybe could *maybe* work: "The cooldown of Ultimate Evolution is increased by 40 seconds (70->110 seconds), but Abathur can now use the cloned hero's Heroic ability".
3.2. Evolution Complete- I think the reward for the quest should be changed to something else. Having a reduced cooldown to a heroic ability that can often be inconsistent doesn't seem right for me. Maybe have it so the mons. also takes reduced damage from heroic sources when you complete the quest.
4. I don't necesarrily agree that the Toxic Nest ability is useless. You just need to know how to use it, when and where to place it, and also be wary of when enemies trigger them. You have no idea how many times I managed to save a teammates' life (or my life), just because an enemy stepped on a mine, revealing them. Though I do agree they could use some love in the talent department.
Overall, this idea looks rather interesting to think about and you really impressed me with it. Keep it up!
Porco | September 12, 2018 12:07am
Thanks for your reply ! Allways a pleasure to talk with an aba lover!
To answer you :
1. Aba needs allies collaboration to be good : i often say to teammates : learn to play with him (play safe early game, go in the middle of minions when you are symbioted, keep on follow a low life ennemy even if your a CC hero...)
Lvl 1 quests are designed to teach teammates how to maximise symbiot impact.
Your completly right when talking about use all aba's playstyles. I think my talent tree improves all his playstyles. I think ir will more reward a player that can master all of them than actual one.
2. Yes this talent is actually weak, granting half of its damages to locusts makes him powerfull i think.
3.1 im not really agree here : this ult needs a short cooldown to keep aba's goid reactivity on battleground. And i think giving him an own ultimate skill would be a little OP!
3.2 i was thinking about basicalky giving cd reduction quest to monstruosity, to reward players that succes to keep it alive for a long time. I dont know how to improve it at lvl. Maybe give it locust strain ability?
4. Yes im wrong : toxic nest is not useless, its talents often are, a single level to make them really good is a good thing i think, forcing players to use them smartly (i remember a game with an abathur who didn't use one single mine for all the game...)
Thank you again for your last sentence. I'll keep up thinking!
Porco | August 22, 2018 9:41am
Some changes :
level 7 talent locust brood have been removed
level 16 talent parasite infestation have been replaced by hyper production, wich gives more symbiot reactivity, and decrease locust strain cooldown.
Porco | March 17, 2018 3:39am
Some changes : Locust brood moved from level 16 to level 7, and have been redesign : 20 seconds cooldown and 2 charges, now spawns 2 locusts but needs to sacrifise a mine. cancelable by destroying a 3 seconds cocoon.

new level 16 talent : parasite infection : symbiot spellsnow inflict a long dot, and can spawn locusts by killing enemy heroes.

Adenaline boost now increase locust move speed by 20% instead of 15.

No more locust nest cooldown reduction on any talent.
Reeeeeeee | March 6, 2018 11:42pm
As an filthy avid abathur main, he really just needs some talent moving, and maybe a stab quest.
First off, His locusts are quite frankly, pretty terrible now that tower ammo is gone. Honestly, making ***ult Strain/Bombard Strain as level 1 talents, would make his early game not so much of a joke. Combined with a baseline stab quest, he would be much stronger both earlier and later.
Secondly, removing mine build is a GIANT step in the right direction-- the build is a meme, and does no one good. Mines should get balistospores baseline maybe?
Third, I love the idea of a drone. Maybe to make it more than a reskin, make it summon two drones that last 20 seconds (same heals in the end).
Fourth (and final) Volitale Mutation baseline on monstrosity? ;P maybe a locust thing in that talent's place instead.
nerdcraft (1) | February 16, 2018 1:58pm
As an Aba main I can see where he would need a rework and I think you did a great job at the concept but I wanted to share some of my thoughts and concerns.

I really love the level 1 talents. Being rewarded for playing well is more rewarding than just taking talents and would help give Aba some early steam since he's such a late bloomer with the current talents. I especially like the Stab piercing a target. I find myself sitting on charges as Heroes run through minion waves so I don't waste them.

My only question about the Quests is that you mention "Hero Hosts". Do you only progress when Hatted on a Hero? Cuz I hat anything and everything. Roachlings, Anub's Scarabs.. hell, even Nazeebo's Zombie Walls. Whatever I can to secure a kill.

The reduction of attack speed at level 4 is concerning... and sharing a tier with Drone? Drone would never get picked. It would probably be best to move the Drone to level 7 and maintain the 25% Attack Speed on Adrenal then having a separate Talent which increases Spell Power by 15%. I find that when there are no Auto Attackers on my team and the enemy team has good lane clear I'm forced into a Shield build. A spell power talent would allow some variation.

I've found that Mine builds are meh, at best, but having some utility on them would be awesome. With the proposed change with Drone from lvl 4 to 7, it would give the player a choice in the type of utility they could choose.

For 13, it's cool that you want to meld the Locust talents with Symbiote to allow build diversity but it may be too powerful because when looking at the level 16 talents there is only one clear choice; Locust Brood. If that's the case, Aba is going to have either strong heals or damage AND strong siege. Most people don't enjoy playing Aba because they assume he's weak but in the right hands he is incredibly powerful. The 13 and 16 synergy from your concept would make him overpowered.

My only concern on the level 20 talents is 80 stacks on Monstrosity. It would be really tough to hit 80 stacks on him but he would be a beast. Currently, at 30+ stacks, I can kill most assassins with the right build. 80 would just be nuts.

I want to refine my comment a bit more but it's 5pm and I wanna go home and take off my pants!
Porco | March 5, 2018 12:32am
First of all, excuse my late reply!
You are probably right on many points.
See thus concept as a "global idea" : i confess im not a pro of balance.
To reply on some points :
"Hero host" means hatted on a hero. I think that collaboration with teammates is the base of aba's gameplay.
Concerning adrenal overlord, i personaly prefer make it a "allways interesting talent" than a auto attacker-only.
I think drone is more interesting than actual mule : the possibility to control it can make it used to secure a kill, or others plays. (The pissibily to cast it directly from a symbiot make it better too) maybe more hp would make it better too?
I really want my "toxic nest" level. Note that this level doesn't make locust evolve, whereas drone does, so i think drone has not his place there.
Concerning locust brood, i agree its overpowerd, that why i increased its cooldown.
I also though about a redesign for this, something like : "transform a nearby mine into a 500hp cocoon. After 3 seconds, cocoon spawns 3 locusts."
It would make this skill harder to use, and easy to cancel...
Volatile mutation is also way better than before (now affects locust). Maybe adrenaline boost deserves a buff...
80 stacks on monstruosity is strong, but not so easy to reach, and this ult is so weak so i think he deserves a good reward if well played. Maybe 60 max would be better?
Really thank you for your constructive comment.
Excuse my english (french player)
Dont hesitate to answer back.
nerdcraft (1) | March 23, 2018 1:04pm
Can't believe so much time has passed since I first found this rework.

I noticed the new talents and I really like the Cocoon at lvl 7. Adding some misdirection in the early game would be amazing for body soaking. You could also backdoor some locusts to take out the sippy cups or delay the next group of minions giving your minions a chance to focus on a structure.

I'm not sure about the lvl 16 talent. The DoT seems like a nice addition but I don't see how Locusts spawned from player deaths would have much benefit. I feel that they would just die in some random AoE before being able to push a lane. After thinking about a way to improve the idea I came up with Locust charges (How original). When the player dies you gain charges of your Locusts. You can store a few charges and activate your Trait to spawn your next Locust immediately for as many charges as you have.

The lore of my idea is that the damage dealt by the DoT sort of steals their essence providing you with the material to create additional Locusts.
Alser | February 15, 2018 10:25pm
And how Ada should collect 40 globes?
Porco | March 5, 2018 12:18am
"heroic host collecting healing globe count as one"
tkal | February 10, 2018 12:34pm
abathur has some of the best talent diversity in the game
he doesnt need a rework
Porco | February 10, 2018 2:05pm
thank you for you reply !
First of all, my aba is level 60, so i can say i know him.
your right, he has many talents.
but I never see talents like envenomed Nest, vile nest, prolific dispersal, assault strain, spatial efficiency, volatile mutation, evolutionary link,or evolution complete.
In opposition, i almost allways see adrenal overlord, ultimate evolution, soma transference, hivemind and locust nest.
so, ok for talent diversity, but not BUILD diversity.
Abathur is one of the less popular hero.
So, i think a rework couldn't be a bad thing.
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