Baine by Wersus

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By: Wersus
Last Updated: Feb 22, 2018
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Son of Carine

The son of the great aging Cairne Bloodhoof, Baine fought alongside his father with pride and respect.
Baine Bloodhoof is Warrior with solid Healing both for him and his allies.

Any Suggestion or Criticism is Welcome.


Health: 2500
Health Regeneration: 15 per Second
Attack Damage: 150
Attack Speed: 1 per Second

Combat Trait

Ancestral Bond

Bond yourself with chosen Ally Hero and both Share 50% of the Damage Taken and Health Restored. Bond lasts for as long as they are in your range and it can be deactivated by Self-Casting [D] or using it on another Ally.

*Explanation for SHARE as a Game Function: If Baine takes 100 Damage and If he was bonded with an nearby Allied Hero, instead of him just taking 100 Damage, both him and Ally would take 50 Damage. Keep in mind that same function works for Healing.

Primary Abilities

Seismic Strike
Cooldown: 4 Seconds

Strike nearby Enemy with your Hammer and Deal 240 ( +4% per Level) Damage to them and send powerful Shockwave expanding from that enemy that will Deal 120 ( +4% per Level) Damage to all enemies on its way and that will Slow them by 50% for 2.5 Seconds.
Spirit Cleanse
Cooldown: 8 Seconds

Become Unstoppable for 2 Seconds and Restore 600 ( +4% per Level) Health to yourself over 3 Seconds. If you are Bonded with an Ally, you both Heal 300 Health over 1.5 Seconds and both become Unstoppable for 1 Second.
Battle Horn
Cooldown: 12 Seconds

Blow in your Horn and Increase Movement and Attack Speed of all nearby Allies by 50% decaying over 5 Seconds. Effects do not decay over time on you and Bonded Allies.

Heroic Abilities

Ancient Totem
Cooldown: 60 Seconds

Create a Totem with 800 ( +4% per Level) Health that sends Shockwaves from its center outwards. Shockwaves will Deal 80 ( +4% per Level) Damage to any enemies on their way and it will Knock them Back by 1.5 Meters each Second. Totem also Generates Shields Equal to 25% Full Health of Every Ally over 5 Seconds. Totem lasts for up to 10 Seconds and it can be Destroyed.
Ancestral Chain
Cooldown: 80 Seconds

Bond yourself with all nearby Ally Heroes and after 5 Seconds Restore all Damage you and they did over 5 Seconds Proportionally as Health to all Bonded Heroes.


Level 1

[Passive]Spirit's Guard-
[D]Ancestral Bond now grants 75 Physical Armor Block every 10 Seconds to both Baine and Bonded Ally.

Quest: Damage 50 Enemy Heroes with [Q]Seismic Strike.
Reward: Increase [Q]Seismic Strike's Shockwave Radius by 50%.

[E]Mending Sound-
Quest: Each Regeneration Orb collected Increases your Health Regeneration by 2.5.
Reward: After Collecting 15 Regeneration Orbs, [E]Battle Horn will now Heal all affected Allies for 55 ( +4% per Level) Health per Second.
Reward: After Collecting 25 Regeneration Orbs, Increase [E]Battle Horn's Radius by 50%.

Level 4

[Q]Growing Waves-
Increase [Q]Seismic Strike's Initial Shockwave Damage by 25% each time it hits an Enemy Hero.

[W]Power Overflow-
[W]Spirit Cleanse will now Heal all nearby Allies for same amount of Healing on its main targets.

[E]Everlasting Tone-
[E]Battle Horn's Effects now do not decay over time and every Allied Hero affected reduces the Cooldown of next [E]Battle Horn by 1 Second.

Level 7

[Passive]Unbreakable Connection-
Every Second of being Bonded with same Ally Increases Cooldown Recovery Speed of Basic Abilities for both you and them by 5% up to Maximum of 50%.

[W]Fortune Blessing-
[W]Spirit Cleanse now Increases Healing Received by 50% for 3 Seconds. This Effect is Shared if you are Bonded.

[E]Proud Leader-
Every Ally Hero affected with [E]Battle Horn Increases its Effect on you by 15%.

Level 10

[R]Ancient Totem-
Create a Totem with 800 ( +4% per Level) Health that sends Shockwaves from its center outwards. Shockwaves will Deal 80 ( +4% per Level) Damage to any enemies on their way and it will Knock them Back by 1.5 Meters each Second. Totem also Generates Shields Equal to 25% Full Health of Every Ally over 5 Seconds. Totem lasts for up to 10 Seconds and it can be Destroyed. Cooldown is 60 Seconds.

[R]Ancestral Chain-
Bond yourself with all nearby Ally Heroes and after 5 Seconds Restore all Damage you and they did over 5 Seconds Proportionally as Health to all Bonded Heroes. Cooldown is 80 Seconds.

Level 13

[Passive]Astral Connection-
[D]Ancestral Bond now grants 50 Spell Armor Block every 15 Seconds to both Baine and Bonded Ally.

[Q]Tectonic Shield-
Every Enemy Hero hit with [Q]Seismic Strike grants you Shield Equal to 5% your Full Health. This Shield is Shared if you are Bonded.

[Active]Evil Spirit-
Cleanse chosen Allied Hero and ,,Capture'' its Negative Effects. This Ability can be Activated again within 5 Seconds to Unleash those Negative effects on chosen Enemy Hero. Cooldown is 60 Seconds.

Level 16

[Q]Earthmother's Strength-
[Q]Seismic Strike's Initial Target is now Stunned for 1 Second and its Armor is Reduced by 25% for 2.5 Seconds.

[W]Natural Balance-
[W]Spirit Cleanse's Healing is Increased by 50% if its used without being Bonded and its Cooldown is Reduced by 50% if its used while Bonded.

[E]Rally Horn-
[E]Battle Horn now Increases nearby Allies' Damage by 25% for 5 Seconds.

Level 20

[R]Totemic Might-
[R]Ancient Totem now Increases Armor of all Nearby Allies by 25% and its Health is Increased by 50%.

[R]Ancestral Protection-
[R]Ancestral Chain will now also Restore 50% of the Damage you and your Allies took over 5 Seconds.

[Active]Spirit Shield-
Gain Shield Equal to 50% of the Damage Taken over last 5 Seconds. This is Shared if you are Bonded.

[Passive]Rumble Force-
Basic Attacks now Reduce [Q]Seismic Slam's Cooldown by 1 Second and they now also send Shockwaves that Deal 50% of their Damage and that Slow Enemies by 25% for 2.5 Seconds.

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Leidiriv (14) | March 8, 2018 9:44pm
okay, answer me this. What the hell were you thinking with this whole thing? The trait's alright, sure (if poorly worded), but it all goes downhill right from there.

His Q is a strictly better version of Sonya's W, what with the massive AoE slow it provides, considering its total uptime and what I can only assume is a total lack of a mana cost. There are no repercussions to spamming any ability in his kit on cooldown, making him ultimately more imbalanced than release Maiev, release Ragnaros, or even the travesty of release Li-Ming. Quite frankly I'm disgusted at how little consideration went into the numbers here, but that's beside the point.

What is related to the point, however, is his W. How did you even think this ability was remotely okay? I'll give you an example in the form of Cleanse, a level 7 talent that is highly contested at most levels of play due to how powerful its effect is. It has a 60 second cooldown and grants one hero Unstoppable for 1 second. Compare that to Spirit Cleanse, an 8 second cooldown that can heal two heroes for 300 over 1.5 seconds (you'll notice this is only slightly less healing over the entire duration than Malfurion's Regrowth, and significantly more healing per second) and grant both heroes Unstoppable for 1 second. While there are minor limits to the healing in the form of one target already being chosen (though it has yet another advantage over Cleanse in that it affects Baine himself, as if everything listed above wasn't enough), I just have to step back for a moment and be amazed at how utterly ridiculous this skill is. It makes Cleanse look like chump change and that alone would be reason enough to pick this hero and have him carry pro matches, due to negating just about every form of CC the enemy team could muster while putting out healing to rival several actual healers. It's a disgustingly powerful ability on an already obscenely powerful hero.

And now we have the E. Oh dear lord. Now, I have to ask, is this guy a support or a warrior, "official" tag nonwithstanding? Because he's better at being a support than any other support in the game already, by virtue of his W, and then you add this on top of it. For reference, Greymane's W is just a similarly sized attack speed bonus for himself alone, with a shorter base duration than Baine's E (though the condition to extend it is easy to perform) and a similar cooldown. The only problem is, Baine's E affects the whole team, and he has a stronger AA (going off base numbers) than Greymane, and Baine's E doesn't decay on himself or his bond target. This, of course, is neglecting the movement speed buff that is almost twice as strong as mounted speed for himself and his Bond target, and effectively the same as mounted speed (given the decay) on everyone else. This ability is utterly ridiculous and, once again, the numbers clearly had nothing more than five seconds of thought put into them.

And oh my god his ults. The first one's bad enough, being, essentially, a better version of Thrall's Earthquake. As you don't list a speed for the shockwaves, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that it only produces three shockwaves during its duration, similar to Thrall's ult. Even so, Ancient Totem is completely broken. Its cooldown is a whole 40 seconds lower than Earthquake, letting it be used in just about every post-10 fight, it has a moderate knockback in place of the large slow, and it also provides a similar (if slightly toned down) version of the level 20 upgrade for Earthquake, all baseline. While it does have the mild drawback of being killable, does that even come close to covering for the utility and added damage it has over Earthquake? (This isn't even counting Ancient Totem's level 20 upgrade, which breaks it even further)

His second ult is... yeesh. So it's basically level 20 Taz'dingo minus the Unkillable, but with the added benefit of everyone being Linked together, allowing Baine to ALSO do a teamwide heal/Cleanse? Again, how does this sound remotely balanced to anyone? Not much else to say about this one, but holy hell is it overpowered.

I'm reluctant to go into the talent section, but, to be fair to the concept, I will. His level 1 talents are, relatively speaking, less game-breaking than his base kit. The two quests make Ana's Piercing Darts look like a pittance of a quest, but the Block is fine and somewhat unique. I don't think I need to elaborate more on what makes his two level 1 quests so insanely overpowered.

The level 4 talents, on the other hand, ARE just as game-breaking as his base kit. The first one continues to make his Q even more of a strictly better version of Sonya's W, the second one gives him AoE healing to rival Stukov at his best (on top of the Unstoppable), and oh look, the third one makes pre-nerf level 7 Sharpened Arrowheads look tame.

And... there it is, the level 7. We've got a better version of Hardened Focus, what amounts to a better version of Ana's W, and an attack/movespeed steroid to make Thrall's E greener than he himself is with envy. I'll skip over his ults since I already covered them, and instead jump right to his level 13 talents. As with Spirit's Guard, Astral Connection is a nice, fresh take on an old generic talent, giving it some nice flavor. Those two talents are pretty much the only thing aside from his trait itself I'd keep so far. Aaaaand then we've got Tectonic Shield (which eclipses Muradin's similar level 13 talent, Healing Static) by nature of overhealing not being wasted and the shield being shared. And as if the W wasn't enough of a kick to Cleanse's nuts, we've got Evil Spirit, which is Cleanse on *slightly* fewer steroid than Spirit Cleanse is, but still some strong steroids. Things still aren't looking too hot here.

And just as I thought things couldn't get crazier, we get the level 16 talents. Natural Balance stands out as being particularly ridiculous, bringing the uber-Cleanse down to a 4 second cooldown. Then we've got Earthmother's Strength as an essentially guaranteed kill every 4 seconds. And of course, Rally Horn, because the level 4 talent for his E wasn't crazy enough.

Now, by comparison, his level 20 is *slightly* more tame, though still gamebreaking in its own right. Totemic Might is like I mentioned above,while Ancestral Protection makes Ancestral Healing look weak by comparison when added to the base ability. As for Spirit Shield, it's surprisingly okay. Keep that and the other two I mentioned (assuming it has a 60 second cooldown), since those are relatively solid, decently fresh talents. Aaaaaand then we're back to "talents/abilities that are far better versions of the best version that already exist" with Rumble Force. It's Nexus Blades, but AoE, and with more slowing and over twice the bonus damage. Need I say more?

In conclusion, I suggest rebuilding the whole thing, paying far more attention to the numbers, but keeping his trait and the three talents I mentioned. Then you're golden
Wersus | March 9, 2018 1:14pm
I was making a very detailed response but while finishing it I accidentally clicked side button on my mouse which backed the page thus deleting whole comment, so this is more of an quick up of that comment, sorry for that.
First of all thank you for such detailed feedback but I have several points to make as well.

Q is not directly better than Sonya's W, in comparison Sonya does much more primary damage even on level 1 ( Not counting WotB which Increases it even more) than Baine has. And 120 Aoe Damage very 4 Seconds is nothing really.

W is strong, but stuns are really boring mechanic, there is nothing worse in this game than chain stun, and I think we shouldn't nerf stuns, we should give them a viable counter pick, Baine.

E, I agree here, but simple Number change can fix it. I won't mention anything further in response for his E talents since core of the problem is here.

R1- Its not stronger than EQ, Its more similar to Destroyable Zarya Pulse Heroic, which is not that strong, atop of that range is really not too much bigger than Zarya's Heroic and it does not slow? You mention some Large Slow but this ability does not slow, it knocksback.

R2- I did not word it directly here that Sharing with multiple allies follows the same rule as with one ally. So 2 Second Unstoppable on 5 Allies is 0.4 Second Ustoppable and 600 Health Heal is 120 Health Heal. Ill give you this one since I didn't word it.

I find Level 1 Tier to be fine and I don't honestly see any problem there.

Level 4 awards Baine if Enemies are clumped up like Maiev, Which I think is pretty fine and balanced. Similarly to his W talent, which awards your team being clumped up, which has its counter ( KT, or really any AoE Mage/ ability).

Level 7 I would argue that its not really as broken as you word it but fine, if it would be OP, change up the numbers, nothing too hard or gamebreaking.

Level 13, Again, Tectonic Shield awards you for getting enemies that are clumped up, nothing wrong there. By the time Baine would get to your clumped up team, you can all spread miles away, making him less useful in such case. His W talent is more effective with a support on his side, which I see as a fine talent really. Since while its shared its just 25% HR increase.

Level 16, Stun could be reduced to 0.5 Seconds if its too strong ( I think this would be very reasonable change) and I again see his W as a fine line of you choosing in a situation what is best for you, which i think is pretty cool for a talent. Compared to some other heroe's Level 16, Baine is really coming short IMO.

And Level 20 is perfectly fine in my eyes, all options seem fine and good in certain situations and builds. You are making it sound like a Shockwave Basic Attack would cover whole screen, but its really just slightly better Malthael Attack ( Without Reapers Mark). For His Heroic Upgrades Again, I think I stated my mind earlier on Heroic Part.

In short, again, thank you for feedback, I agree that some number changes would be welcome ( His E, its Talents and some changes to numbers for some other Talents) but really I don't see a problem beyond that. I had a more detailed response but unfortunately its lost, so If I forgot to mention something, call me out for it. If you have any other suggestion, I will gladly take it just like this one.
Wolfheart19 (2) | January 17, 2018 5:51am
One of the best and most original concepts for Baine. The only thing which you should change is damage from Seismic Strike. For a tank, its too high, so I would recommand to reduce it by a half.
Wersus | January 18, 2018 12:07pm
Thank your for suggestion! I also felt like his damage was little bit too high, I will lower it in next update of concept. :D
Ponyboy | January 16, 2018 9:14pm
This, this is what a great warrior of Thunder Bluff should be. He seems like a great double tank hero and a protector of his team. This is probably the best concept I've seen in ages, and the only real thing i would say is to lessen how many regen globes it takes to reach max, 25 maybe. Other than that this is quite amazing. Blizzard designers get this guy on your staff.
Wersus | January 18, 2018 12:08pm
Thank you for kind words! I will lower Regeneration Globes in next update. :D
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