Greymane Fully Explained (Hero League picking and Threat Assessments) by FullMetalJesus

Greymane Fully Explained (Hero League picking and Threat Assessments)

By: FullMetalJesus
Last Updated: Jan 16, 2016
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Greymane

Build: Poke and Punish Mistakes (Flex)

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Level 16
Level 20

Threats to Greymane with this build

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Threat Hero Notes
1
 Gazlowe avoid fighting in the turrets and it's ez... or burst him and get out before the turrets lock onto u.
1
 Lt. Morales no threat to you. whatsoever. will be annoying if u cant catch her out of position. q build is useful for wearing her down before team fights.
2
 Malfurion about the same as morales.
3
 Brightwing BW is annoying for greymane early and mid game, but can be chunked easily.
3
 Li Li little threat to you directly, she removes the extra aa from your burst when u q.
4
 Rehgar annoying like li li. bloodlust might change things though and make him more of a threat, doubtful as much as kharazim however.
5
 Abathur Abathur isn't a threat by himself, but given his mines can take chunks out of greymanes ~4k hp at level 20... it's annoying. Also, Abathur cloning counter pick heroes to greymane also make him dangerous if he shows up to a fight.
5
 Nazeebo brozeebo has slightly better poke than u. Garg is really your only threat. bursting zeebo then garg is fairly easy. but you'll be badly hurt.
5
 Rexxar He's rexar, which is always a pain to lane against, try to deal with. But he isn't likely to kill u before u can kill him (or mischa, effectively de-fanging him)
5
 Tyrande she has 1 stun and can mark u. 1 v 1 not scary.
6
 Arthas about the same as anub. Arthas has a root which will get greymane murdered in a teamfight. Currently greymane can chunk arhtas.
6
 Azmodan Greymane will chunk azmo late game. Don't try to get into a q poke battle with azmo early game in lane, you'll lose badly.
6
 Illidan A good illidan can put up a fight for a while...but generally he wishes he was you.
6
 Uther not as dangerous as kharazim but more annoying and dangerous than lili or malf. D-shield is your bane.
7
 Anub'arak Not really much of a threat to greymane himself, but his disable ultimate at level 10 will get greymane killed in a teamfight. Greymane can chunk Anub, but it'll take longer than 2 seconds to do, which is a waste of dps burst which should be saved for someone like a raynor or kt.
7
 E.T.C. pretty much same as chen. etc loses terribly to greymane 1 v 1.
7
 Jaina you can out poke jaina. once in melee, you will kill her. her burst and roots need to be respected though.
7
 Kael'thas Its hard to out poke a good kt (flame strike) but it can be done. 1 v 1 you can still murder kt before he kills you. His real threat is the incidental chain bombs on your allies or friendly lane minions which explode onto you.
7
 Lunara watch out for the kite and you'll be ok. Don't and she'll whittle you down.
7
 Raynor u pretty much only fear a double shotgun stun raynor with 'gimme more', even then its easy to make him miss and burst him down.
7
 Zagara Zagara will lane bully greymane. maw is annoying and will probly get you killed in a tf. 1 v 1 in the open however, u can chunk her pretty easily.
7
 Stitches able to isolate u for his team to kill you. not much of a threat 1 v 1. late game u chunk him.
8
 Chen Chen is dangerous at 10+ with barrel. He'll knock you into the clutches of his entire team. to die. If he doesn't go barrel at 10, have fun insta nuking his 3 mini me's to build 'gather power' stacks, or to continue your ult assassinations.
8
 Kerrigan think of illidan with stuns. you will still outburst her for the kill 1 v 1. but barely.
8
 Muradin Not dangerous to you himself. but he is a hard counter that will render you inert until u die. stay away form him. pray he takes 'playmaker haymaker' to help with your disengage. Attacking him tends to be a waste.
8
 Murky murky can kill u/ wear you down. don't under-estimate his octo grab.
8
 Sonya dangerous dangerous dangerous. But 1 v 1 if u can dodge the spear, you'll win pretty easily, even be able to burst through the healing whirl wind.
8
 Tyrael slightly less dangerous than artanis if he goes sanctification. I've only had good experiences chunking judgement tyraels.
8
 Tassadar not as much of a threat to kill u as kharazim is, but he's almost impossible to kill 1 v 1.
9
 Artanis early game, no big deal. bigger threat to greymane late game with purifier and his level 16 talent. 1 v 1 greymane still comes out on top, but ever so barely.
9
 Cho Steer clear, let someone else lane against him. Greymane is too slow to dodge and poke back. Late game, you can chunk him pretty easily however.
9
 Gall against him. Greymane is too slow to dodge and poke back. Late game, you can chunk him pretty easily however.
9
 Diablo about the same as chen. charge,apoc,overpower,apoc going off, and over power again = his team kill u. 1 v1. fighting him is about the same as fighting anub. if Diablo goes lightining breath, greymane loses, unlessu can pro kite him in wolf form and spam q to stay out of lightning breath.
9
 Kharazim 1 v 1 you'll burst kharazim down in about 2 seconds...he can generally shrug off your q poke. his seven sided strike and palm change things in unpredictable ways when 1 v 1'ing him. avoid kharazim.
9
 Leoric about the same as artanis. spectral form will waste your burst, spectral leech just might gib you. you can out poke him though in lane. late game you should still be able to kill him. but barely. Fear the entomb for the team kill.
9
 Zeratul pretty much the same as nova. vp is annoying, but predator ult could have him burst u down before u can burst him.
9
 Sgt. Hammer about the same as azmo, with 1 big difference. Hammer will always be protected. so there's a good chunce you'll die chunking a diablo/etc before u can get to her.
9
 Tychus Surprising dangerous for his ability to escape, lock onto u and back up, poke. Don't under-estimate tychus. at any point in the game.
9
 Valla A good valla is very capable of out laning u, out poking u, and killing you (if hounds gotten at 10 instead of strafe). just run away unless you can get the first jump on her with the 'e' pounce.
9
 The Butcher If butcher combos with furnace on his charge, be very afraid. If butcher goes lambs of slaughter in 1 v 1 he did u a favor by helping you kill him by not being able to accidentally Q too far.
9
 Sylvanas fast, hard to catch, and has some sustain. black arrows will whittle u down. Either catch her on a bad rotation or just run away when u see her.
10
 Falstad falstad can out kite greymane, poke equally or better than greymane (extended throw), but he cannot outburst greymane 1 v 1... and then there's gust...
10
 Greymane Other greymanes are every bit as big a threat as you are to them. The person who gets the first attck in will win 99% of the time, assuming like builds.
10
 Nova take block and e pounce on the first thing u see, hoping she uncloaks to try to tripple tap u, then quickly burst her down...else it's rip.
10
 Thrall In my opnion, sustain thrall is the biggest most dangerous counter to greymane this world has ever seen. avoid him like the plague. very unlikely u beat him 1 v 1.

Greymane

Build: Ranged Tyrande Substitute

Level 1
Level 4
Level 7
Level 10
Level 13
Level 16
Level 20

Greymane

Build: Gilnean Cocktail 'Q' Build

Level 1
Level 4
Level 7
Level 10
Level 13
Level 16
Level 20

Greymane: What he does and why. Top

The key to playing Greymane well is understanding his talent kit and knowing when to 'flex' (deviate talent skills from a build) and why. The goal of this guide is aimed at helping you do just that.


Greymane (hence forth known as the MANE) is a melee assassin masquerading as ranged assassin out of necessity. Not many heroes have higher meaningful burst damage than the MANE in wolf form. He can max out about 4k+ hero damage in 2 seconds from my testing him with various ranged and melee builds from the 'test' option in game, as well as QM and HL play. Meaningful damage is damage that directly contributes to a kill.


Ideally, to get the most damage value out of Greymane, he should be in wolf form whenever attacking something/someone, safely. BUT because the MANE doesn't have: cc/stuns, baseline high movement speed, sustain(hp restore effects) and great escapes...


It is rarely possible to murder everything constantly in wolf form without dying, so don't try.




On the other hand, Greymane's human form ranged assasin kit feels a bit underwhelming until late game. Initially his base range feels short, his attack speed feels manageable with his 'w' active (inner beast), but slow and clunky otherwise. As a ranged assassin, he definitely is not on the level of someone like Valla or Raynor. Even with the Quicksilver Bullets taken at 7, you'll find playing the MANE as a strict ranged assassin will feel like a trap. If people can stun, pounce on and blow up someone like Valla who has an escape which you do not, you can't reasonably expect to do as well. (You'll die more)


Furthermore, Gilnean Cocktail leaves something to be desired. The 8 second cooldown on the skill feels too long, and there is no way to shorten it to something decent, like 6 seconds. The skill itself, and subsequent upgrades are great to poke with and should be used frequently in lane, to start mercenary camps, or to bleed out an enemy team before engaging in a team fight.


In essence, The MANE doesn't do either melee assassin great, nor ranged assasin great... so what is he suppose to do?


Answer: Poke enemies in lane or team fights from a safe distance until someone on the enemy team makes a mistake, then slaughtering them for their transgressions in wolf form.


(Mistakes to punish enemies for: over extending/being out of position, making bad rotations from lane to lane, staying in a fight too long with low hp)


-That means beginning and staying in human form for auto attacking minions in lane, when the enemy hero is positioned back AND you know there are 0 rotations coming your way for a gank.
If the enemy lane hero is playing forward, or you think there could be an enemy rotation coming your way, stay out of auto attack range and just throw q's , else you'll probly find yourself dead.


-When roaming for a gank: Make sure to have a big beefy stun lock tank with you, else don't. Rotating with a tassadar with leaching plasma is ok to do, because you get heals and tasadar can dish out some damage and has escapes for days. I do not recommend attempting to roam for ganks with medic. medic has no escapes and neither do you. If your fellow roaming gank tank catches someone, execute them by all means with everything you have. If u find yourself in trouble for whatever reason( someone gets the jump on you, you're outnumbered...etc)- RUN! Leave the tank behind. No reason why 2 people should be dead when there can just be 1. most cc heavy tanks have great escapes themselves, so don't worry about it. Let their sacrifice be meaningful by running away and living. It is what all good tanks want.


-If you happen across most anybody in game, in a 1 v 1 situation, don't be afraid to go off on them like a spider monkey. There is only a handful of heroes that can 1 v 1 you and win when spec'd for melee worgen. (most notably sustain build Thrall, or another greymane)


IN SHORT: Play human form Greymane like Valla when there is a butcher around. When an opportunity for a gank presents itself, switch to Worgen form and murder people like you would with a dps Kharazim.




That's right, playing the MANE requires excellent ranged assassin positioning (i.e. play a lot of lunara or valla and raynor) AND excellent melee squishy assassin positioning (i.e. play a lot of dps kharazim or illidan) . And Map awareness. If you can play these 2 types of characters well, you are ready for THE MANE. If you cannot, RIP. You'll give up 10-20 deaths per game. Map Awareness. Map Awareness. Map Awareness. Map Awareness. -don't forget to keep your eyes on that little minimap in the bottom right hand corner frequently.

HE IS A HIGH SKILL CAP HERO NOT DESIGNED FOR NEW PLAYERS.

Talents for Greymane: Poke and Punish Mistakes. Top

Greymane has lots of viable talents!

Level 1:

Perfect Aim – Generally, the preferred talent. Adding poke range and getting mana back for it is always a good thing.

Viciousness –2nd/3rd preferred talent. A good talent to take if you think your going to be auto attacking a lot and/or skill spamming on enemy heroes or minions to kep your W status up. Generally, it's hard to stay in auto attack 'AA' range in both wolf and human forms during team fights or skirmishes to keep it up all the time, and clearing lane minions takes less time than you might think (which means your almost guaranteed to have a full 16 second cool-down period before u can pop it again at some critical point)

Wolfheart - 2nd/3rd preferred talent. Good talent if u think you're going to be auto attacking in any form a lot. HINT: Don't use skills, because they don't count for the purposes of this talent. Generally either your team comp, or enemy team comp won't allow constant wolf AA auto-attacking. P.S. you will need to get in a good number of auto attacks in to be worth while... like 12-16, which you will find to be troublesome many times until late game.

Scented Tincture – Least preferred talent. Very rarely are the cloaked enemy heroes going to be standing behind minions in lane directly across from you, or hiding directly behind their tanks in team fights in order for you to get the value of the wide spray effect. Besides, You can de-cloak enemy cloaked heroes by just hitting them with q anyways since it does damage.
(FYI in case you didn’t know, In order for the Q talent to spray outward, it has to hit an enemy first, until an upgrade at 7).

Level 4:

Thick Skin – 2nd preferred skill. Becomes first preferred skill if enemy team has cloaked assassins like nova or zeratul, else take Eyes in the Dark. Also becomes first priority if enemy team has a Greymane of their own. Consider picking it up if enemy team has a Sonay or Thrall (but not required due to the nature in which Greymane is suppose to be played)

Eyes in the Dark –1st/2nd preferred skill. 4 seconds of cloaked disengage is hard to pass up. Everything should stop targeting u and look for something else to deal with. Noted exception is butchers charge. Several times I cloak disengaged and the charge still hunted me down and connected. I was very upset. Wanted a referee somewhere to throw an off-sides flag or call foul.

Insatiable – Least preferred skill. Consider picking this up if you are pro who is experiencing mana problems and don’t need a meaningful disengage early game.(check enemy team comp to verify) If you go this route, I highly suggest picking Running Wild at 13 so maybe you have a halfway decent escape later on)

Drought Overflow –flex 2nd/3rd preferred skill. If you think you’re going to be lane'ing a lot against another ranged dps, and not doing much melee gank’ing, make this the choice. This is also good talent to soften up an enemy teams with a Medic before a team fight. The goal is to not engage, kite,poke poke poke bleed'em out. THEN the fight can begin. Else pick Eyes in the Dark or Thick Skin for those times when you do want to get in a nice melee kill. Again, I strongly suggest you up Running Wild at 13 so u don’t die frequently when executing people in melee range, if you pick this skill).

Level 7:

Quicksilver Bullets –Least preferred skill. Seems like a good idea if you want to try to stay human ranged assassin with the Marked For The Kill ult at 10. Even then, it’s lower value than going wolf melee for kills. Least preferred skill. I Never Pick it anymore.

Incendiary Elixir – Flex 1st/2nd preferred skill. Great skill for poking, now allows for full damage on your ‘q’ hits, and will guarantee spray even if u miss.

Wizened Duelist – Flex 1st/2nd preferred skill. Greymanes' improved version of Gathering Power . Only requires 10 kill participations to max at 30%, instead of Gathering Powers' 15 kill participations. Useful if your team has stuns and roots. This will make u god at max stacks, and even if you die and are able to get to 5 stacks for 15% extra damage -that is still a lot, especially late game. If you feel confident in your positioning skills, play-making decisions and timing AND ALSO recognizing that your team comp has the stun/lock advantaged -TAKE IT! TAKE IT! TAKE IT! TAKE IT! TAKE IT! TAKE IT! TAKE IT! TAKE IT! This skill is absolutely required if you want to make a max damage Greymane. I pick this skill about as frequently as Incendiary Elixer and prefer to take it over everything if the circumstances allow.

Level 10:

Go for the Throat – 1st preferred skill. Always pick it. It’s required for maxing out damage with the following skill combo, beginning in human form: W , Q , E , Q , R , Q , ‘AA’(auto-attack), Q . Most heroes don’t live to the AA part. The ones that do will get to enjoy you auto attacking and razor-swiping them until they die, or until u run away via disengage. (NOTE: currently you get a free auto attack when razor-swiping as long as u stay within melee range. So spam away at the Q to enjoy the bonus damage!

Marked for the Kill –Least preferred skill. While damage testing this skill there were times I thought it was better than Go For the Throat. BUT in game play, this was hardly the case. You basically only ever want to pick this talent if you have decided you are going to spec yourself ranged assassin with Q poke and auto fire. A major downside to this ult is that YOU CAN MISS IT. I Never take this talent anymore.


Level 13:

Running Wild –1st/2nd preferred skill. Good Disengage skill. Consider picking up until u get used to Greymane. Not really Necessary with the cloaking disengage skill Eyes In The Dark .

Visceral Attacks –Preferred skill. This will lower your Q cooldown time to a near spammable level. It makes it so that you can essentially stick to retreating enemy heroes once you pounce on them. It's required skill to max out the dps of the MANE.

On the Prowl – Flex 2nd/3rd Preferred skill. I initially thought this was meant to be an attack skill. It’s not. It’s better treated as an escape skill once you disengage . (Assuming u saved it) I'd only consider picking this up if you went Wolfheart at level 1 and Quicksilver Bullets at 7, then it can kind of be used offensively on things like minions, especially if you pick up Hunters Blunderbss at level 20. Again, it's hard to stay in auto attack range as a human without dying to enemy heroes.

Unfettered Assault - Least preferred skill. The increase in razor-swipe's range is nice, but it can get you into trouble via over-extending. It's not a bad skill, but there are just better options at this talent level.


Level 16:

Concentrated Blast – Least preferred skill. I almost never pick it. Least value skill. Basically you only want to pick this if u went with the Marked for the Kill talent and are 100% committed to that build or the Gilnean Cocktail build.

Relentless Predator- 2nd/3rd preferred pick. Some people have made the claim this is an 'automatic must pick' for the hero. WRONG. Given how Greymane is supposed to be played, it’s really not. I’d recommend picking this up only if the other team has a stun/lock advantaged over your team. Remember, Greymane is suppose to sit on the back line and wait for an opportunity to punish someone's mistake (just poking in the meantime). You can feel pretty sure the enemy team will blow their cc and stuns on other heroes like etc, diablo, thrall, sonya by the time you engage in melee. Pick it if you want to try to be super safe, but as you play the hero more and get comfortable with his kit and playstyle you'll realize it isn't necessary in most cases.

Executioner – Flex 1st/2nd preferred skill. Ideal for team fights when u have a cc duo teammate you roam with, or a cc heavy team composition(comp) to keep people still for you to chew on. It will give you the most damage possible if you can take advantage of your teammates CC, else go with Alpha Killer .

Alpha Killer- Flex 1st/2nd preferred skill. Basically Giant killer's bigger brother. Ideal for solo 1 v 1 against anyone and everyone...especially hurts tanks, Azmodan, and CHOGAL. The only other skill that CAN give more damage is Executioner , which happens to be teammate dependent (requires they slow/stun…etc.)


level 20:

Unleashed- 3rd preferred skill. If the enemy team has little squishies you can farm, (think Vikings) feel free to go with this pick. Or if u think the enemy team is going to be all dangerously low health at about the same time in teamfights, it's ok to pick this skill for an enemy team wipe. Personally, I think it's better to deal more damage to secure a kill in the first place by going with Tooth and Claw . You still win games 5 v 4, you don't have to be 5 v3,2,1 to win games. Besides, rarely is it ever the case more than 3 enemy team heroes are within execution hp around the same time and place. (Good players tend to run away and/or spread out. It's habit they have ingrained in their DNA from reacting to KT's chainbomb )

Gilnean Roulette- Least preferred skill.You probly shouldn’t have gone with it’s level 10 partner talent Marked for The Kill . If you did, don’t expect enemies to line up in a straight line for you to hit in a match to get max value. In short, never pick this.

Hunter's Blunderbuss- 2nd preferred skill. Ideal if you picked the Marked for Kill talent at 10 and/or are trying to play as a full ranged assassin. This skill finally gives teeth to your ranged auto attacks by popping everyone in a small aoe range behind who you hit. Consider picking this up to deal with a medic or sergeant hammer.

Tooth and Claw- 1st preferred skill. Again, this skill will allow u to finish people fast and dirty with that 100% damage increase to auto attacks in wolf form. I prefer this talent because it helps guarantee a kill, which can then snowball into 2 or 3 kills in a team fight, whereas going with Unleashed may never pay dividends if you or your team is struggling to get kills. This is a required skill to max dps for the MANE. Besides, 5 vs 4's still win you the game.

Ranged Tyrande-esque Substitute Build (with variations) Top

If you are a die hard ranged assassin style player, this is the build for you. There is a good chance you still won't like it and will prefer to play someone like valla, falstad or raynor. At least it's still better than Lunara XD. (1) items are first preference. (2) -indicate a viable second option.

1. wolf heart(1) or perfect aim.(2)
4. Insatiable(1) or Drought Overflow(2)
7. Quick Silver Bullets(1) or Incendiary Elixir(2)
10. Marked for the Kill
13. On the Prowl(1) or Running Wild(2)
17. Concentrated Blast(1 ) or Executioner(2 -only take this if you have nice aoe cc on your team)
20. Hunters Blunderbuss

Picking Greymane in Hero League Top

Here's a quick and dirty general draft overview of the current stun/lock heavy meta of Hero League:
Team 1 first pick: Tyrande (stun)
Team 2 first 2 picks: Uther (stun/ d shield) + [Muradin/ETC] (stuns)
team 1 middle 2 picks: whoever is left of [Muradin/ETC, or Diablo] (stuns) + [Raynor/KT/Jaina/Zagara/Fasltad] (stuns, disengages, disables)
team 2 late 2 picks: whoever is left of [Raynor/KT/Jaina/Zagara/Fasltad]
team 1 last 2 picks: [Thrall, Sonya] (stuns, sustainability) + whoever is left of [Raynor/KT/Jaina/Zagara/Fasltad]
team 2 last 1 pick: whoever is left of [thrall/sonya] or surprise pick[ nova, zeratul, abathur, murky] (flex pick)

If you're one of the team 1 last 2 picks, and you notice someone on the enemy team didn't meta pick -you may now go Greymane in place of [thrall, sonya] or begrudgingly in place of a [Raynor/KT/Jaina/Zagara/Fasltad] pick.

OR

If your team 2's last 1 pick, and you notice notice someone on the enemy team didn't meta pick -you may now go Greymane in place of the surprise pick. Or if you your team secures both muradin and etc early, and you already have a burst/aoe ranged assasin like a KT, then you can go Greymane.

For hero league, there are almost always better hero picks than Greymane in the current stun meta. Early picking Greymane will almost certainly result in enemy team punishing you with a counter pick or two.

Gilnean Cocktail 'Q' Build Top

Working on this, should be coming soon.

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